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Another glorious victory for Starf@gs

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Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 01:05:00 - [1] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/03/2010 01:05:41 Why are you faking killmails against your own people and posting them on battleclinic you silly little man? We don't use that ridiculous site. Any killmails we score go on the Star Fraction killboard. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this topic but I'm not sure it'll make you look anything other than a little bit sad and desperate. True Knowledge
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 01:19:00 - [2] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/03/2010 01:22:53 Originally by: TatooHead Its not my working I just copied it from a link I got in local. All this topic is about is to show the eve comunity your true colours as plain old vultures that can't fight and only go for easy pray. I don't care how it makes me look as I always say what I mean, not like some "free captains" we know Can't fight? We beat you every major fleet action in the recent campaign. We crushed you on your own campaign figures (on your killboard) and we succeeded in flatlining your industrial indexes in the KBP pocket well in advance of the Southern Coalition advance. In any major test of ship on ship fighting with roughly even numbers we've kicked you down the stairs. So not really sure what you are talking about. True Knowledge
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 05:22:00 - [3] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/03/2010 05:24:52 Originally by: Major Templar @Jade. You claim taking our Industry index down but what you don't realize is that we were taking our own Industry down from the beginning. We knew SC was making a move and we decided from that day to take all non-PvP and more expensive gear out of 0.0 to make ready for a fight. Lucky coincidence for us then wasn't it. Here's the thing. We went into a war, we declared our win condition (your indexes) you declared yours (KD ratio). Of course we were both overtaken by events (the fall of Providence) but since we quite happily suppressed your miners, and quite successfully defeated you in key fleet battles I don't really feel too disappointed with the outcome - your own K/D ratio based measure on your the Sev3rance killboards showed we did pretty well even including the 110 cruisers we lost to a completely unrelated defense against the entire proviblob 2 months before the campaign began you included to spice the figures a bit Quote: Also, you claim you defeated us in a major engagement but when you look at that engagement, you need to realize that you were not alone and you in fact were supported by U'K, Mini Militia, and a few others. Of course, and you were supported by Cold Steel, 24th Crusade and CVA. If you look at the extra allies on both sides they even up in the end. In the latter battle we had more battleships on the field (SF only) than you did in Sev. I've pretty sure we take you directly 1v1 but it wasn't 1v1 because both sides bring allies. Thats eve. Quote: Your alliance alone, and this is something admitted by some of your members, that your alliance could not go toe to toe with Sev3rance. Our alliance alone could never go against the Providence blob thats true. But I'm pretty sure we've defeated Sev3rance many times over the years when we've had the chance to engage you away from your allies. (these campaigns are matters of public records and its ridiculous to claim otherwise). Quote: All this aside, it's a game, just have fun and do what makes you happy. If smacking is fun, then by all means, have at it. Just have fun. I know I have been. Well I don't think given the identity of the thread poster here you can lecture about smacking. I do appreciate that your guys are disappointed to be losing their space but I think showing a little more dignity on the way out will help you all in the long run. True Knowledge
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 05:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Mara Kell Once SF was a respected and feared enemy even in providence but that time is long gone. I think lack of respect is what caused you to run headlong into the slaughter at The Battle of Space and Freedom IV to be quite honest with you. Still it was a learning experience for your fighters and will probably go down in history as the last great battle you fought in your own name. But now is the time for you to show a little dignity Mara Kell. True Knowledge
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Major Templar Jade, now you know that your figures are a little over blown there. I don't see how, I'm quoting from your own killboard. You know the campaign you conveniently dropped when you realized you were losing quite badly on the tracking. Its pretty simple. Industrial index suppression (check.) Econominc damage in the pocket (check.) Fleet victories in empire (check). Seriously Major Templar, I don't think we are allowed to link killboards here but I have every confidence that on ours and yours it shows SF consistently superior to Sev3rance in ongoing campaign results. Then of course we have the Interstellar Correspondents News piece describing the campaign in extremely well-researched and neutral article showing your industrial indexes comprehensively flatlined. So no mr Templar, I don't think "my figures" are at all overblown. Quote: ]Why? you might ask, it's simple really. Well firstly, you never engage in a real battle and in fact you sit cloaked or hidden. The battles of Dital and Kamela seem to speak overwise. Shall I link you the footage of space and freedom IV (again)? In that fight Star Fraction deployed more battleships than Sev3rance did and together with our allies crushed your allies took the field. 2 weeks before we'd broken you in pitched fighting in Dital. These victories were not achieved with cloaked ships. Quote: To claim any victory and saying that you have defeated or beaten us is like saying, "I walked into your house at night, snuck into your room while you were asleep, and killed you." We are guerillas. While we have destroyed you in open fights and annihilated your battleship groups we are certainly not going to feel bad about shooting you from a distance in ambushes and traps. Quote: When we bring out our ships, we are even in numbers and actually attack with the same type, well your forces who are sitting on the Dital gate for example, run, into high sec. Now, this shows that you are not confident in your ability to engage 1 vs 1 against us. It actually shows that we respect your ability to bring triage carriers to the KBP fight after the battle is joined because (until recently) you were the only side able to operate them behind the cyno jammers. Try to bring your groups in hisec now we have a war dec again and you will find things go differently. Don't try to diminish the advantages of holding sovereignty in 0.0 for rhetorical effect, its a bit sad. Quote: As of late, you are only coming into KBP when there are U'K or Atlas. This is because you know that you are less likely to run into that RR-BS fleet that we can produce. I assure you we lost any fear for your RR-BS talents after Dital and Kamela. Quote: We are talking -7- here, not the Provi blob. Please, bring a real fight and stick around not running and see what happens. Once you are out of KBP I think we'll have that opportunity. Will be interesting to see if Sev3rance maintains its identity now you are on the road to exile. Originally by: Major Templar And can I ask SF a favor? Next time we come in and stomp all over you and reinforce a tower, DON'T DROP THE DEC!? Your best thing that you always do when you just can't win, you drop a war, again and again. I dropped the war before the reinforcement battle of Space and Freedom IV for 2 reasons Major Templar. 1. I wanted to harvest kill-rights and ensure that our allies could get involved in the battle without taking sec hits. 2. I was near-certain your leaders lacked the courage to counterdec. The wardec function is a tactical tool to be used to the benefit of your friends and detriment of your enemy. Don't come wringing your hands and begging for help from us. You have complete freedom to wardec us yourselves if you feel its tactically advantageous - don't expect us to make it easy for you. You can always make it mutual.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Muad' Dib You don't need to be a goon to think that about SF, Well ignorance helps too of course. Quote: To the severence guy, i hope you guys make a separate campaign vs SF on the KB and kick their asses in it They had one. They dropped it when the figures got very embarrassing. Considering they backdated it 2 months prior to the start of the campaign to include several previous lowsec adventures backed by the Provibloc they were down to 39% efficiency 10billion isk behind, and losing 27-90 on battleship results. You are cheering for the wrong people here.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 16:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Van PokerAlho If I declare war on some corp and say my goal is to jump to one of their systems and get out of there alive, that does not make me victorious. I just accomplished my objective, my goal, victory is a much bigger concept. Victories are of course measured by how many goals you completed successfully, but in a general way to see it, to claim victory you need to subvert enemy in a given time or permanently. Thats all very reasonable. I can't disagree at all. Quote: Is hard to define what is a victory or what is not a victory but disrupting industrial capabilities of an alliance does not look like a victory. Its a tactic really. Nobody claimed "ULTIMATE VICTORY" on the basis of flatlining industrial indexes, but like the u-boat campaign of ww2 its just one factor in the broader conflict. In the context of the Star Fraction vs Sev3rance fight I consider the successful defense of the black ops staging towers in Dital to be every bit as significant because that was really Sev3rance's serious push to deny us black ops intervention in the KBP pocket from hisec bases. The kamela fighting and successful defense of Space and Freedom IV while not as directly linked to the campaign as Dital, was a showpiece fleet battle at showed that Sev3rance (+allies) were not able to match Star Fraction (+allies) in a pitched fight away from the cyno-jammers of Providence.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 16:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Salivan Harddin What you can do, is just look at the goals both parties set, look at KBs, membership base and member activity and deduce who won by distilling the accumulated data. Creating a system in EVE that can objectively measure "win" would be a colossus and fascinating endeavor in my eyes, but at this time we are forced to relay on available periphery information and what PR tell us. I think its what keeps the game of Eve so fascinating really. The challenge of how to fight and how to measure the results and how to plan a wider campaign. Once all the fighting is over on the Sev3rance/KBP front we'll be able to sit a bit and assess general effectiveness but our strategy here was pretty straightforward. 1. Star Fraction cannot take space from the Sev3rance while Sev are protected by the Provibloc. 2. Star Fraction cannot win a fleet battle in Sev3rance nullsec (given roughly even numbers because Sev have carriers and we do not - gotta love cynojammers) 3. Star Fraction do on the other hand have initiative and choice, we can choose how and where to fight and our challenge is to make the enemy dance to our tune (rather than the other way around.) 4. So the issue becomes how can you drive the enemy to fight on your chosen ground rather than theirs. Hence the plan. CCP introduced a new sovereignty tracking tool that shows development indexes that can be linked from the forums and used as an objective measure of economic "strength" in an area of space. Regardless of the actual value of this economic measure in isk - its beyond value in propaganda, its a publicly accessible "scoreboard" that if an alliance cannot dominate will embarrass its military. Any 0.0 entity that proudly talks up its power in defense of that space will be shamed if it cannot actually do that and sees its indexes falling due to enemy action. This is a huge development in the game. Whereas previously it was impossible for a smaller organized force to achieve anything apart from killmails/economic hits on individuals against a sitting territorial power - now we have the ability to show that an organization is failing on a collective level referencing independently-audited and unchallengeable figures from ccp's own site. We knew this would sting Sev3rance where it hurts - in the pride. So we prepped a campaign that was built entirely around projecting blackops capable strike teams (bombers in the main) from a pair of staging POS in hisec adjacent to the Sev3rance pocket. From this base calibration IV blackops portals could push the strike teams anywhere in the target constellation with zero warning to various agents and supporters carrying covert cyno portals. To the miners and industrialists (and ratters) it was terrifying. From absolutely nowhere you could have up to a dozen bombers appearing at point blank range on your ship and blowing you to pieces in a volley or two of torps. No surprise then that very soon Sev were trying to escort mining ops of single barges with a half dozen combat ships. But so boring that they usually last 60mins tops then go back to dock, and then we strike again. The point of all this is to sting the enemy into an unwise counterattack and they only have one target - the staging towers in hisec. When the enemy has been stung enough, we drop a wardec, allow them to move against us at a time and place of our chosing. Dital was one such time, Kamela another. So the triumph of the tactic (bomber suppression of industrial indexes) was mainly a way to force sev to a) have to admit there is independently audited record of their failure as a holder and b) counterattack to one of our POS towers with our forces on high alert. Would it have won the war on its own? Who knows. We certainly planned for a campaign of six months not six weeks. We've all been overtaken by events as Providence falls in short order. But it was a good tactic and a sound plan as I think the victories in dital and kamela demonstrate.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 17:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Shadow Bloodtear The loss of industry rating in the triangle was primarily a personal decision. You can pat yourselves on the back all you want for it, but if you monitored the horizon you'd have noticed we had just moved in slightly further. We let you maintain the illusion that you were in someway claiming a moral victory for disruption... because it kept you away from where we actually were. UK found us eventually, but SF never ventured further than cyno range from empire space. We had a lvl 4.9 index system a few jumps further in, and it was the best mining we've had in over half a year. You may have disrupted neutrals, but not alliance. As I said, our campaign was based around seemless black ops injection of raiders into the KBP pocket. That was always our goal and regardless of your reasons for moving away elsewhere into providence it wasn't really our problem. If you got pushed from the pocket to somewhere else where our other allies found you so be it. The goal of the campaign was to make you react. To force you off balance. And to drive you from behind your prepared defensive positions. Ultimately I think we can both see that is precisely what happened.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.18 19:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Garst Tyrell Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/03/2010 01:05:41 Why are you faking killmails against your own people and posting them on battleclinic you silly little man? We don't use that ridiculous site. Any killmails we score go on the Star Fraction killboard. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this topic but I'm not sure it'll make you look anything other than a little bit sad and desperate. Mails end up battleclinic whether you post them or not because it API pulls. I dont use it either, but all my mails are up there Ah well I didn't know that, but the fact remains it was an obvious fake that had absolutely nothing to do with us. For some reason Tattohead thought it might be funny to try to incriminate SF for "faking" mails without realizing that he did a great disservice to his own alliance making an embarrassment here. Comes to something though doesn't it - when all that is left to a spaceholder is to rant on the forums and post fake mails

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